Spaniards, Salvation & God
Unlike our dear tusked blubber boy, I am new to tending the bar. I have a passion for the fermented drink, but my experience is shallow. My only request, please make your order with a strong, clearly annunciated voice....and keep in mind, I am still memorizing the names of drinks. However, though I am transparent and consequently somewhat timid in my ability to serve...don’t think I won’t kick your ass if you roughhouse your way past me.
My final preface: I recently wrote a post on my own humble blog that is the precursor of this post. Though written in a different context, please feel free to read it: The Riddle. If time is short then simply know that I wanted to see if we could live “as if” heaven did not exist. My conclusion is that in our present theological paradigm, living as if heaven doesn’t exist betrays the self-centered religion we perform. Living as if heaven did not exist might actually help us live better lives.
The Spaniards aren’t evil, but damn, they really have been mean in the past. Jared Diamond in his book, Guns, Germs, and Steel, quotes in full the story detailed by witnesses of how the Spaniards conquered the largest civilization in the New World--the Incas. Coming into Cajamarca, they asked the emperor Atahuallpa to come and meet them in peace. The Spaniards attempted to evangelize the emperor (of course evangelism couched in imperialism) and gave him a Bible which he couldn’t read and refused. In a true deceptive ploy they slaughtered his entourage and captured Atahuallpa. After receiving a huge bribe of gold, they broke their promise and executed the emperor instead of freeing him. However, listen to this witness, who explains what they said to the emperor after they captured him:
“The Governor said to Atahuallpa, ‘Do not take it as an insult that you have been defeated and taken prisoner, for with the Christians who come with me, though so few in number, I have conquered greater kingdoms than yours, and have defeated other more powerful lords than you, imposing upon them the dominion of the Emperor, whose vassal I am, and who is King of Spain and of the universal world. We come to conquer this land by his command, that all may come to a knowledge of God and of His Holy Catholic Faith; and by reason of our good mission, God, the Creator of heaven and earth and of all things in them, permits this, in order that you may know Him and come out from the bestial and diabolical life that you lead. It is for this reason that we, being so few in number, subjugate that vast host. When you have seen the errors in which you live, you will understand the good that we have done you by coming to your land by order of his Majesty the King of Spain. Our Lord permitted that your pride should be brought low and that no Indian should be able to offend a Christian.’” (pg 73-74)
In our world of political correctness, we can’t imagine a politician speaking such words. But that’s just the liberals over-powering our common sense. Maybe the Spaniards were a bit harsh but that’s what we want isn’t it? We want God to rule the world and that Christians will live freely and without struggle. We want what God wants don’t we? We want people to leave their “bestial and diabolical” lives. So what does it really matter if we do it the Spaniard way or the politically correct way with pamphlets, door knocking and revivals? Grow a spine and draw the line--there are those who are saved and there are those who are lost.
We feel like we’ve advanced from the Spaniards. But I propose there is no difference between a Spaniard conquistador and a door-knocking evangelist from Franklin, TN. The only difference is self-deception--the evangelist thinks he is better than the Spaniard. Where is the proof? The Spaniard thinks God told him to kill and torture the heathen. The modern evangelical thinks God told him to be the scout--God will do the killing and torturing. That’s a big difference you say? Bullshit. The result is the same. Hell seeps into our relationships. What is supposed to be a human interaction becomes a conflict overseen by Hell. By allowing human beings to be tortured in a supposed afterlife, we devalue that same life on this side of death. Hell crosses the great divide and fills the world. If I can allow a man to be stabbed to death after death, then what’s the difference if I stab him now? The Spaniards were better theologians. Well, they at least didn’t fall into a cowardly self-deception.
I’m being fairly aggressive. But western Christianity has completely fixated on something that is AFTER life. This fixation breeds violence.
I think it is fair to say (especially if we learn from historical Christian imperialism) that “soteriology” (i.e. how a human gets saved, why a human needs to be saved, when a human is saved) defines the sociological space we create with our neighbor. The soteriological myth of the Spaniards and today is defined by violence whether this worldly or other worldly. Violence is part of the fabric of creation. But, violence is what salvation is supposed to escape. Nevertheless, because of Christian salvation, the sword of a Spaniard dripped with Incan blood, a Christian elementary school teacher stabbed and ripped an immigrant family apart (see This American Life), or a missionary trivializes absolute poverty and injustice because “accepting” Jesus is all that matters. Why? What is the problem with this Christian salvation? Well, at the risk of falling into reductionism, let me suggest a BIG issue. God is the problem. God is responsible.
Like the fall of qualitative to quantitative, storytelling to metaphysics, conversation to creed, we have reduced salvation to selfishness. The overarching shadow of God has been the key. We think salvation is achieved by a simple imitation of a literary character called God. Without qualification, we are overwhelmed by the need to personalize and domesticate a conceptual and experiential mystery like “God.” We read salvation myth, observing an imaginary ethical bias toward God, and selfishly side with this God. What is the greatest commandment according to the Christian tradition? Most would think of “love God with all your....” However, we stop with God. Since we have identified the “right” character, we are saved. But, we have trouble grasping the unified nature of God AND Neighbor. Consequently, we fixate on some kind of inner representation of God that syncs with self.
I live in a place where “salvation” doesn’t exist. Literally, this word doesn’t exist in the local language. But ‘chikulupusysio’ exists here. This word works in the context of defending another human being. ‘Chikulupusyio’ is a linguistic expression of human connection. I can perform ‘chikulupsyio’ to my fellow human. I can defend you.
I think we need to be saved from God. We need a salvation that redefines how we survive together. Salvation cannot be separated from my neighbor. The dualism of heaven/hell cannot be stripped from this side of death. The timeless character of “eternal life” must be found on earth. Consider at least: the bulk of Jesus’ recorded sayings refer to human interaction; the quality of Jesus’ life was what swallowed death; and the resurrected Jesus was seen in the same places where his life with his neighbor had been rich (around a table, on a journey). Salvation is found in my neighbor. My neighbor has at least some resources for resisting my tendency to violence. The literary character “God” merely feeds my selfishness.

21 Comments:
Hey, not everybody at once!
squanchum, I'll get my comments up on Saturday (my time). I've had lectures and papers and all those annoying obligations this week. Great post.
1:57 AM, November 02, 2007
No rush--I will just keep pouring myself drinks. Don't blame me if I'm a bit loopy when you belly up to the bar!!
By the way, I will be closing the polls on my bean vote soon over at chajila (http://chajila.blogspot.com/). So if you haven't crunched some numbers yet....do it.
9:51 AM, November 02, 2007
Hey brother, I suppose it was a good week for you to bartend as I have been unable to fulfill my duties. The weekend turned out to be busier than expected and I've got a couple major assignments due on Monday and Tuesday. I will belly up to the bar soon though. I'm beginning to wonder where the hell everyone went. Is it fall break or something??
5:37 PM, November 04, 2007
I think I'm going to get pissed off pretty soon. My clock is ticking. I'm hoping you get some more comments by next week because otherwise, I'm going to seriously consider shutting this blog down.
Here's my request for a drink: I need a shot of whiskey. I've been drawn to Bushmill's lately but I need to be loyal to my boy Jameson as well. Either way, I need it neat. I hate cold liquor. I like being on this side of the bar for a change.
I loved your post and I think it serves as a critique of Western Christianity at its very root. I think you've identified precisely what drives all lay and pastoral theological thought in America: the fear of hell. My holy God how much I hate that. It's precisely why the Church at large has nothing to say or do for poverty and...well, let's just stop there.
No one knows how to respond to your post because it's uncovered their fear. You punched them in the face and the Church would just rather turn their cheek than face the world. How's that for irony. I'm done for now b/c I'm too frustrated to comment further at the moment. Thanks for the shot. Maybe one of these days someone in the Church will start listening to our voices. Or maybe not.
11:41 PM, November 07, 2007
Done, since the bar is just us, I'll leave the bottle. I'm going for a South African Port with a cuban.
South Africa has so much more to offer than Mozambique (as far as spirits are concerned......the drinkable kind)
2:26 AM, November 08, 2007
How bit this? What song/artist is this from...
"You don't count the dead, with God on your side."
It's an easy one.
By the way, any thoughts on "secularizing" salvation?
5:01 AM, November 09, 2007
That'd be Mr. Dylan. I'd act cool and act like I knew that but I had to cheat.
Hmm, yeah "secularizing" salvation is indeed tricky. I'm not sure what salvation could mean in a secular sense unless you're going the liberation route and that's still employing Christian mythology pretty heavily. Is this what you meant? See, I'm torn b/c in some senses I do think concepts of salvation can be helpful for people in their lives (in the sense of seeing beyond their current reality - really in the same ways mythology in general works I suppose). I'd like to hear what you think on this matter as well. You explored some interesting concepts from the indigenous culture where you are that seem to relate to this subject and they resonated with me. I think the concept of survival has been quite misunderstood in Christianity due to concepts of salvation. I think that's often why our ethics and doctrine fall short - they simply don't connect with people who are living their everyday lives trying to survive in a fucked up world. We can talk out elaborate beautiful doctrines all we want but that doesn't put food on the table nor does it much help with processing trauma. Thoughts? Hook me up with a Port while you're thinking cuz I'm whiskeyed out for the moment...and pass that Cuban.
Side question - Don't laugh at my ignorance but I might need some geographical tutoring. Is Mozambique not considered South Africa?
8:59 PM, November 09, 2007
South Africa is the country at the extreme southern end of Africa. Mozambique is the country north of South Africa along the Indian Ocean. Both are in southern Africa!!!
I'll think more on your questions. I do think, yes, the apocalyptic genre is for liberation purposes. "Securalizing salvation" probably isn't the best description. Like you said, the myths we employ need to be useful for life. I'm for dumbing down our sense of "doctrine" and finding ways to communicate with each other and with the mystery of our existence in less institutionalized fashion. I'll get back with you for a more thought out resonse. By the way, I've got a new post up. Let me know what you think. Holy cow, I forgot (being cyber and not REAL) A round of drinks on me--I've got a daughter!!!!!
7:48 AM, November 11, 2007
I just saw that yesterday actually. Congrats! Let's see, I've got 2 nephews and one niece now. I might have to kidnap your girl for a while. I've always wanted a girl but at the rate I'm going, it might be a while.
4:32 PM, November 11, 2007
It's funny you asked me to do a post of salvation. Over the past year, I've felt overwhelmed by the constant, daily evaporation of human identity. It's made believing in salvation incredibly difficult if not practically impossible. Religious salvation is so disconnected from life it is as if there is no salvation in my experience. So I'm not necessarily for secularization as I am for the dethroning of Religion. Like you, I think we need myth. What hurts us is the way we read scripture. We are so biased in the way we read, we seem to nurture irresponsibility. We have also failed to continue the process of myth building. We have refused to mythologize AS scripture the events that continue to happen in our day (I am referring to obvious big events like the Holocaust, as well as other current happenings). Because we refuse this important work, our idea of salvation continues to be (as you stated) devoid of reality. It is other worldly. I really think the place to start (regarding salvation) is the heaven/hell aspect of soteriology. If we could transfer these concepts to real spaces--real dimensions--of THIS life then at the very least we would have a useful structure for developing meaning. I come face to face with Hell daily. So do you. In all of those moments, I am truly lost. I am, of course, not speaking about some kind of personal "vice."
One of the reasons I brought up the idea of defending my neighbor as salvation is because it is first THIS worldly. Secondly, seeing salvation as intricately tied to my neighbor puts me in a vulnerable position. I'm not sanctifying vulnerability in the "broken before the Lord" mentality. I think vulnerablity is what actually helps us to experience hell. I think we will be working in a constructive direction once we feel hell. We will then be working with reality. Ever seen The Night Listener with Robin Williams? I think that movie is an excellent example of the church's inability to see reality. It's of course not just the church, but a condition of the western world. We walk around looking for shiny stories where God "shows" himself. Again, we can't start with God. But if we start with our neighbor, God just might emerge. We now can look at the paradigmatic myth of the divine stranger. Whatever we mean with the word "God" it should emerge in our human interconnection. I think this should also apply to "eternity."
In this sense we don't get saved. Salvation is merely a term that defines a certain kind of ethical space we have with our neighbors. When that space is good, hope in trauma is born and truly given as a gift from my neighbor. Bread is put on the table because it is given from my neighbor.
2:39 AM, November 12, 2007
dear Squanchum,
Thanks for your thoughtful essay. I have a comment on something specific in the very last paragraph. You write, "the quality of Jesus' life was what swallowed death." I think you should be careful with your appeals to Jesus' life as part of your argument; the theological focus on Jesus' "historical" life comes in the 18th and 19th centuries. Paul's sotieriology relies on the resurrected Jesus (who is, yes, encountered "on the road"), and Jesus' divinity. Paul doesn't seem to know much about the "historical Jesus" at all. The saving aspect of Jesus' death for Paul (and so the early Church) was not the quality of his life, but rather the sacrifice of God's own son. The synoptic Gospels focus on Jesus' life, John focuses on the incarnation, and Paul focuses on the resurrection - what is salvific is the particularity of Jesus in his death. What "swallowed death" was not the life of Jesus, but the divine identity of Jesus.
I think you are exactly right that salvation is communal, and that we need a theology that is not limited by the soteriological argument I just described. However, we're bound by the writings of the New Testament authors and centuries of theology and tradition. How do we move toward a more communal soteriology within our traditions and faith communities?
For sure, there are places where salvation is defined as a matter of community. One example of a place like this is AA. At the end of every AA meeting (and other twelve-step meetings), members stand in a circle and hold hands as one person says, "Let this circle represent what we can do together that we cannot do alone," which is, namely, to achieve salvation (from alcoholism, or gambling, or whatever). Then the group recites the Lord's Prayer in unison. There is something very powerful about this sense of salvation through community, almost as though this is what the church is supposed to be but sort of isn't anymore. This idea of defending each other fits well into the twelve-step "theology," and makes a lot of sense in terms of how we ought to think of each other in community. Where in the Gospel stories do you find a similar sense of defense of others? Is Jesus a defender in that more literal sense? How about when he draws in the sand and dares the sinless to cast the first stone?
I think it would be fascinating for someone to develop a "theology of defense" based on this African idea you mention.
Thanks again for the thoughtful post, and my apologies for not responding right away.
-wc
7:28 PM, November 12, 2007
Wow, thanks watercolor!!! Thewalrus has been a kind and welcomed presence at the bar. The problem with walrus is that he has to keep drinking in order to keep talking. This often makes conversations very colorful, but with port and whiskey.....you can go for only so long!!
Anyway, more than most people, we can probably all say, "A friend of the walrus is a friend of mine." Welcome to the conversation.
I too don't think it useful to remain in historical-criticism which the search for the historical Jesus properly belongs. In my reference to Jesus' life, I'm referring to it as a "pure" text in which we may actually see Jesus' real life. However, the life of Jesus (which the gospels portray) is an element or thread in the mythic fabric that has defined traditional Christian soteriology. I see Jesus' life as a narrative (let's think of Hans Frei here) that can provide a mythic framework for salvation. However, we must do the work of imagining this salvation. As you said, Paul did it without the gospels. However, there is evidence that he had a handfull of pericopes about Jesus. He placed emphasis on the end of the narrative and built his theology off the post-Calgary events. I'm suggesting we have narrative space to re-imagine a different soteriology from the gospels. In fact the last paragraph of this post are ideas for constructively doing just that...but according to a this worldly interest.
Before I move to your other questions, let me say that I find your emphasis on the identity of Jesus as salvific especially interesting. First, what if the narrative of Jesus never included the resurrection? I think his identity would have been a marginal issue. Either God died that day or a man did. However, since we have a resurrection we must attend to the details of how that resurrection is described. Yes, for the NT writers, his resurrection defined his divinity. However, the narrative spends it's time explaining how Jesus shows up with the disciples. Those witnesses (re)member Jesus when he was among them. I think this reveals the power or quality of his life. If we emphasize identity as the heart of Christian salvation then we are still left with some difficult issues. The doctrine of incarnation is a good historical example of the complexity and difficulty with identity. Was Jesus divine or human? How do we express this? Human identity alone is not understood and is a fluid and complex topic. However, if Jesus' life swallows death and this life is a life with others, then human identity has the freedom to express it's most mysterious elements. When Peter faced Jesus, he faced a man. Due to Jesus and Peter's quality of life together, even in the midst of death, Peter remembered life with Jesus. And, maybe, it was in this remembrance, that Peter began to see a different identity emerging in Jesus. Haven't you ever had an interaction with someone where identity was blurred. Even to the extent that "someone else" was surfacing in the moment? Human identity has this capacity. I think this is the power of saying "salvation is found in my neighbor." When we add me, you and walrus, we don't have "us." We have something more. This "more" surfaces in our life together. Jesus' identity is complicated.....so is yours.
How can this be done in our own traditions? I don't know. The walrus might say that we can't and it is necessary to fold these traditions since the traditions represent living churches (or non-living but existing churches). I'll leave that to the walrus. I might say the same thing. But if we refer to simply the textual traditions, I think we can differentiate between myth (or narrative) and interpretation of the myth (I'm oversymplifying I know narrative is also interpreted). We can attend to the myths, observe the attempts of early writers, early churches to formulate these myths, and then do the similar work.
I think your comments on AA and defense are excellent. I think defence has some great possibilities, but certain clarifications would need to be made. Thanks
12:33 PM, November 13, 2007
By the way, I have to go to the US embassy in Jo'burg tomorrow so that my new daughter can get a passport...so that we can go back home to MZ. Anyway, I'll be back to the bar on Thursday. Judging by the traffic, I'm not too worried. But it's a bar and a bar shouldn't be without drink. So here is what I'm going to do. I've got a few local drinks for you guys to try. First, if you need something cold and sweet, try the Amarula (made from a local fruit). I'm also setting out another bottle of Cape Port. If you need a brandy, I've got two choices: Oude Moulen 100 and Klipdrift Gold. With the whiskey (for walrus) you can't beat Jack (even the South African's love it) but you could try a lighter brandy that is actually marketed for whiskey drinkers--Flight of the Fish Eagle. Finally, I'm uncorking a Pinotage (this year)--a true South African invention. I leave you with Dave Matthew's "Bartender" playing.....see you Thursday (Wednesday your time)
12:42 PM, November 13, 2007
I'm working up a response to your excellent response. Your forcing me to define my own soteriology, something I've never really done. In the meantime, I'll just point out the humorous irony of all the bar/drink metaphors since I spend an hour every night at AA. I'll just have water, on the rocks, with a twist.
-wc
7:18 PM, November 14, 2007
Unacceptable typo in the previous post. Second sentence, first word: should be "you're".
-wc
7:19 PM, November 14, 2007
Sorry for taking so long to post something...I think this has been one of the busiest semesters of my life, but I'll try to be better about posting stuff.
I think this post is really the middle of the argument, rather than the opening, and I think we have to back up a step before it can unfold like this. it seems like your critique of soteriology really grows out of the eschatological heaven/hell dimensions, in other words the answer to what people are being saved from is "hell".
Personally, I agree that such an understanding of salvation is pretty radically flawed. It seems like a fuller answer would be that we are saved from sin. If that gets reduced to only the eschatological consequences of sin, then the problem seems to be more with the reducers than with the story itself, which seems to me to be a fuller account of why we need saving in the first place, including the sociological, economic, relational ways that sin affects us as humans, besides just pissing God off. Ironically, focusing on keeping God from getting ticked at us, seems likely to piss God off more than anything else, particularly when that leads us to ignore our neighbors or see them as tools to serve our own righteousness.
But i've got more beef with the last three paragraphs. First, I think it's incorrect to assert that God's the problem, or that what we need to be saved from is God. Isn't your argument really about how we need to be saved from a reduced view of God? I just didn't really get you here.
11:36 PM, November 15, 2007
there's no concept of rescue in the language? WHat do they yell when they fall out of boats or find themselves in burning buildings, or being mugged or culturally imperialised? I can see how chikulupusysio is a little wordy for situations like that, but they have to have something!
I almost forgot to say the most important thing for the post, too....Congrats on breeding!
11:39 PM, November 15, 2007
Hey guys, I'm back. First, watercolor, you are a brave person to be in AA and in a cyber bar--haha. I got your water and your twist.
Hey stevepvc thanks for the congrats. Let me mull you over (not in the bear sense of course). I shoot something back today.....
3:45 AM, November 16, 2007
http://www.threadpit.com/store/product.php?productid=146&cat=0&page=1
Sorry to lurk, link, and leave, but if I had an address, xmas would come early for our proprieter...
The Thrill
2:03 PM, November 16, 2007
Steve, thanks for the response. I've figured this has been a hectic time. And, it's not like a blog is of some infinite importance. Blogging is like mixing positive things (conversing with friends) and a negative (doing homework). Have you ever had a friend say, "Before I comment, I need a few days to work up a 'proper' response--and for it to be grammatically correct... Anyway, I appreciate your questions.
I understand that there could be a "step back" in this conversation on salvation. I guess, my critique of current soteriology is a not so much a theological critique but a critique born from ethnography. However, I think observing the basic, lived-out formation of doctrine is a better picture of the doctrine itself. (I know I'm opening myself up to critique here, but what else is there really but the performed beliefs of the people?)
First, let's make clear that the "story" isn't equivalent to our current soteriology. Perhaps you are referring to the theological story of soteriology that we have interpreted from the base narrative??? Part of my problem or suspicion with the current story of salvation is the very FACT that it is so easily reduced to eschatology. My argument is that our literal transliteration of eschatology has overwhelmed or engulfed salvation. Approach any member of any church and to begin a conversation on salvation you don't ask "What is salvation?" The appropriate question is "What must I do to be saved? We know the usual response. However, based on this response the church tends to then divide the world eschatologically. For the church, eschatology is functional soteriology. Soteriology should attempt to answer not just one basic question (What are we saved from?) but Who saves, Why do we need to be saved, How are we saved and When are we saved. A proper discussion of salvation would deal with all of these questions--really none of them is more basic than the other. I have focused on essentially the eschatological "what are we saved from" because it has engulfed everything else.
As you know, I'm emphasizing the "now" of salvation. But more, I want to place soteriology under ethics. As I said, I want us see soteriology as the functional way we define and interact with other people (the sociological space business).
Let's talk about the beef? Where's the beef?
First, a personal side note. I have found it increasingly difficult to "talk" about "God." (excuse the heavy use of quotation marks) Theology proper is....well I feel like I fall into a deep ocean trench (and I've got a weight belt on) when God comes up. We use the noun "God" like "he" is my next door neighbor and it really trips me up. Prayer....I don't know what to do with prayer. I grew up with a clearly defined, factual specific description of God. Since then, "God" has expanded into nothingness. Don't call me an atheist, (that would be weird considering my position) but understand that God is an incredibly complex, mysterious noun that we use as if it were a person sitting right next to us.
Now, part of what I am attacking is the vague, general notion of God that is often used in pop culture. We are talking about nothing and everything at the same time. In the end, God is whatever I need God to be based on my own needs at the time. Essentially, God is the OMNI-ME. When the OMNI-ME is the 'Who' of salvation that becomes incredibly dangerous.
Secondly, however, let's discuss God as God pertains to the actual biblical text. Most would agree with the above paragraph. But then we feel like we can provide more details of God as God performs in the biblical narrative. By reading sacred myth, we side with God. We feel privileged to read over God's shoulder so to speak. By reading with God, we become saved. Yet even here, God is a character of the text. We can't hide behind some kind of "divine inspiration" doctrine--that's cheating (humanely speaking). Again, when we read with God, we are able to internalize God and out pops the OMNI-ME. But, as my uncle has recently helped me see, God sins in the Bible. For example, no sooner has God told humanity it is wrong to murder that he then conducts murder against the very people he commands.
We can read the Bible and still walk away without knowing who God is. Here comes a bit of Levinas (thanks to my uncle) "God is without content apart from the relation to the Other." All we really have is, "God is like....." Functionally, our world is without God. There is no God for us to fathom, because we don't know what to look for. We can provide numerous definitions of the Who of salvation, but we are only a moment from internalizing this definition and falling into an abyss of self-deception. I think this moment doesn't really represent a choice we humans have. This moment is kin to falling off a cliff--it will happen. In your words, God is "reduced." So, we need to be saved from God. I really am gravitating to the butterfly commandment of Jesus--love God, love neighbor. I see this as a way to allow God to emerge. It's not that my neighbor isn't capable of my hegemony. But, at least we can talk about salvation under ethics. I actually have an organism that can call my bluff. I have an organism that can respond. No only this, but my neighbor has a complex identity that is without qualification impossible to "know." It is this sociological space (human identity) where "God" emerges. Let me know if I'm responding properly. I appreciate your willingness to debate with a rookie. You and thewalrus are true swordsmen of words.
4:22 AM, November 17, 2007
I've been in a drunken stupor behind this bar. I'm going outside to get some air. Be back in a few days. I think, Mr. Walrus, the bar is yours. Peace.
See you on the other side (heading back home tomorrow)
Squanchum
8:44 AM, December 03, 2007
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