How It Doesn't
O.k., I haven't had as many comments on the recent posts as I would like but I won't bitch just yet. This really is turning out to be a true bar. Some of the old cats haven't posted in a while but we're getting new patrons by the day. Some claim to be superheroes, others members of the animal kingdom, and I have no idea how to characterize or categorize the rest. Regardless, keep the comments coming. I'm still listening and I'm committed to responding. Thanks for your time and thought. We won't stay on this forever I assure you. But how long we stay on it might just be contingent on how satisfied I am with the response(s)...so keep talking!
With that said, let me say this. As I've mentioned before, some of you know me, some of you don't. But either way, whatever you do, please, please, I beg you, don't let this hurt your faith to the point to where you lose it. I know this will likely sound like a cop-out and in most ways, that's exactly what it is. But I would rather all of you think this whole discussion is bullshit than me take responsibility for where you go with it. I just don't need that right now. So whatever and wherever you go with this, it is your decision and your responsibility, nothing less. I'm just talking in a bar with friends for self-entertainment. I may ask you to start a revolution, and a whole hell of a lot may ride on whether you do or not, but at the end of the day, it is your call whether you do or not, not mine. I'm saying all of this not to take away from what I'm saying (about the church) but to ensure that I can sleep at night. I get too little sleep as it is b/c I carry this stuff around so I don't need anything to make it worse. I really don't need more blood on my hands...there's enough there already. So, draw your guns and shoot if you wish but don't point at me when you lose your grip or miss your mark. It's your life and your decision what you do with it. I'm just looking for someone to talk to about this stuff b/c I'm trying to piece certain things together and it just sucks sometimes being the only one who seems to struggle with it. But that's my shit and you've got yours, so, there you have it.
By the way, if Martha Stewart drops by, tell her I need some more creative decorations. The theology/philosophy theme doesn't do much for promotions. But nothing with flowers or anything frilly, o.k.? And tell her not to turn the pool tables into gardens or the dartboards into the bar version of "I'm in pre-K and I'm drawing dogs, houses, and clouds and mommy's going to put it on the refrigerator." I mean, some lines have to be drawn...
posted by thewalrus at 12:35 AM
20 Comments:
The DJ is currently playing: "Shake Ya Tail Feather."
Whoever can tell me the artist who sings it and the movie soundtrack it appears on will get a free drink. And no cheating by looking on Amazon or something. Straight up, boys and girls. Let's see who knows their music...
3:36 AM, March 04, 2005
P. Diddy with some other guy, not sure what movie it's from. That's all I got. I think that deserves at least something, but maybe not the whole drink.
8:24 AM, March 04, 2005
Okay it's also Murphy Lee and Nelly from Bad Boys II. I have to admit I asked one of my ghetto clients but I totally knew P.Diddy!
8:54 AM, March 04, 2005
my wife rocks, but here we are again, with the walrus buying my wife drinks!
9:04 AM, March 04, 2005
Hey, I know at one point you were responsible for what I learned. I also know we are no longer in that environment. When you were my teacher, one of the biggest things you taught me was to think for myself. Therefore please don't feel any responsibity for me.
I take these discussions on here pretty lightly, which is ironic concerning their nature.
I hope you don't let this consume you in unhealthy ways, get some sleep. Your like the janitor, bartender, and bar owner who works full-time, plus over-time. Take some time off; but don't neglect this place either.
10:33 AM, March 04, 2005
I am certainly not letting your comments hurt my faith. Like you told me earlier,"Let the questions continue to haunt. Just don't let them control you" That is exactly how I am viewing your posts. I must confess that I have done a lot more thinking since I started blogging than I have done in a while. I have been told many times that the decision you make must be your own. No one can make them for you. I think that applies to how people take your messages. You're just presenting information, what people do with it is up to them.
Keep up the interesting posts. I thoroughly enjoy reading and thinking about them.
2:55 PM, March 04, 2005
khovater,
The drink is on me. What would you like? You seem like the tequila type. How about a shot of 1800?
system,
Don't blame me for this one buddy.
2:40 AM, March 05, 2005
leigh botts,
Thanks for the props. You understand me well. I can only hope to live up to the standards I've set for myself...an impossibility at best, a challenge at worst. If I taught you to think for yourself, then I must have done something right as you have succeeded at that so well.
I'll take some time off soon but I'm enjoying it too much now. I mean, how many people my age get to run their own bar?
2:47 AM, March 05, 2005
longhorn,
I think you stated it better than I did.
I'm really glad that you are enjoying thesecondchance. I'm enjoying it too. It's causing me to think about this stuff more than I have in a long time. I'm just hoping that's a good thing.
2:55 AM, March 05, 2005
stickyfeet,
I'm pretty pissed at you right now (for stuff outside the world of thesecondchance) but I'm going to respond here anyway b/c that's my job.
I'm not sure what you mean by letting go seeming like not caring. I'm not disputing what you're saying; just not quite sure what you mean. I will say this though. Perhaps it requires a bit of apathy to be done correctly. Here's what I mean. In some ways, maybe some apathy could help b/c it help the person to not fear the consequences of letting go. Fear is, after all, what prevents us from doing such things. We fear punishment from God. We think he'll disapprove of it. But why would he? If God is all wise, as I think he is, wouldn't it make sense that in a world as jacked up as ours that he would understand our need to do something like that?
Just some thoughts. Let me know if I'm addressing what you're asking.
3:09 AM, March 05, 2005
eskimofriend,
Well, I'm tempted to say that you've had too much to drink my friend as half of what you said borders on the incomprehensible. It's quite entertaining and I was definitely laughing out loud, but I don't know what the hell you mean with half of it (like what in God's name is "moose's tooth"? and the chimpanzee comment? dude...). But it's all good. We need some healthy nonsense around here. Things get a little too serious sometimes. You definitely have me thoroughly intrigued as to who you are and how you ended up here. More clues?
Well, unless I were drunk off my ass (and not likely even then), I would never claim to have seen all of, as you put it, "the" church. My background is Protestant, the specific denomination the Churches of Christ. That's my personal narrative and I speak from that place. But I do believe the problems of which I speak are found in all denominations, all branches of Christianity - Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, you name it. I say "the church" b/c I must speak in generalities. Qualifying everything would make for uninteresting conversation so I took the easy route. Feel free to mention exceptions if you see them.
I have no idea what it would mean to have my head stuck in a zit but if you see symptoms of such a problem, let me know. And in terms of goodness lying around the bend...well, that's precisely what I'm hoping for.
3:22 AM, March 05, 2005
wlarus,
I like the new fancy pictures you stuck up in here. nice, baby.
6:49 PM, March 05, 2005
That's the Buena Vista, right off of Aquatic Park in San Francisco! I'd recognize that bar anywhere. I had an Irish coffee there ... 'cause I didn't have to drive home. Just hop the cable car.
7:12 PM, March 05, 2005
walrus,
Okay, buddy, but I'm going to have to say I'm a little disappointed in the disappearence of the bonhoeffer discussion seemingly right when I was starting to get my head around how to discuss it.
Okay so here's my first question: when Bonhoeffer talks about non-religious christianity, (you seem to prefer the term "worldly" christianity...reasons?) what is the concept of religion that he wants us to get away from? I have serious doubts that he intends for us to pack it all up and sever discipleship. In fact it seems his effort is to redeem discipleship by taking out of the useless dead casings of religion. but what are those casings? Okay, give me something solid and concrete on that, and we can move that discussion a little.
7:13 PM, March 05, 2005
system,
The last two posts were intended to be corollaries of the Bonhoeffer post. But, yes, they've kind of taken on lives of their own.
Well, the term "non-religious" in and of itself has complications. Some have taken Bonhoeffer to mean that this is some type of dis on the institution of the church. I don't think Bonhoeffer was speaking of some type of non-institutional Christianity. In many ways, that's a contradiction in terms. By worldly Christianity, I'm simply speaking of a mode of discipleship that lives fully within the world and not separate from it. We've ghettoized Christianity to the point that it now has its own culture.
Explain what you mean by "pack it all up and sever discipleship." If you mean by that, the Sermon on the Mount, then certainly not. But if you mean our traditionally perceived notions of morality, then I do think that's part of it. I think Bonhoeffer is saying that, in large part due to the church's ineffectiveness, its lingua de franca (sp?) has become foreign at best and offensive at worst.
I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for - let me know if I need to clarify further. I'll do the best I can.
1:03 AM, March 06, 2005
My response, after thinking about it for a while, would have been too long to post here. So I just put it on a post on my blog: The Postulant's Screed.
4:30 PM, March 06, 2005
loki,
Welcome to thesecondchance. No mucking so far. After a few drinks, maybe, but not yet.
I think you've got a good hold on Bonhoeffer here. I would like to hear more from you on your statement on the Beatitudes. I think you might be on to something and for the more scripturally-inclined folks, it might be helpful to have a resource here. Specifically, how do they point to a non-separation between the church and the world?
P.S. -- Thanks for the arcane discipline reference. Hey, I can at least say I wasn't the first to bring it up!
12:46 AM, March 07, 2005
What's the "Arcane Discipline?"
11:03 PM, March 07, 2005
leigh botts,
The "arcane discipline" has also been referred, by yours truly and others, as the "discipline of the secret." Also known as the subject of my master's thesis, which you've heard too much about already.
3:26 AM, March 11, 2005
loki,
It's clear to me but it's also my choice of study. Thanks for the contribution. It's nice to have a companion in this stuff.
3:28 AM, March 11, 2005
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